Interview with Moshe Ma'oz

INTERVIEW WITH MOSHE ???? SAIS REVIEW: In November 1977 world attention was riveted on Anwar Sadat when he made his unprecedented trip to Jerusalem—an act which, less than a year toter, was followed by the signing of the Camp David accords. Since then, Egyptian-Israeli rehtions have seen ups and downs, and today the question is whether peace between these two countries can be completed without the participation ofthe man whose initiativefour years ago set the process in motion. In light of his assassination, it is useful to review Sadat's actions, to discuss why he went to Israel in the first place. Then we can look at the current situation. MA'OZ: I think that a combination of interests and motivations underlay Sadat's visit to Israel. To begin with, there were fundamental strategic and military considerations : Sadat knew very well that he could not defeat Israel on the battlefield. Egypt had tried [to defeat Israel] a number of times— in 1948, in 1956, 1967 and 1970 and 1971. Even the war in 1973, which was an initial success for the Egyptians , didn't work. So Sadat came to the conclusion that he could achieve his goals through diplomatic and political means. I wish to add that most of his considerations, including the military ones, were tied to the broader strategic outlook of the Egyptian position in the Middle East with regard to the superpowers. Sadat wanted Egypt to become the cornerstone of the American strategic network—what we now call "strategic consensus " in the Middle East — and he wanted to be the principal ally, not just the client, Moshe Ma'oz is a Visiting Professor at Georgetown University, Washington, D.C. On sabbatical from his position as a professor of history and Middle East politics at Hebrew University ofJerusalem, he is writing a book entitled The Emergence ofa New Palestinian Leadership: West Bank Mayors UnderJordan and Israel. Dr. Ma'oz served as an advisor on Arab affairs to former Israeli defense minister Ezer Weizman, and, earlier, as an advisor on Middle East affairs for the Foreign Affairs and Defense committees of the Knesset. Questioning Dr. Ma'oz was Geoffrey Basik, a candidate for the master's degree in Middle East studies at SAIS. 55 56 SAIS REVIEW of the United States. I think this is why he ousted the Russians in 1972, and started to smile toward Washington. He knew that he couldn't get very far with the Russians because he had already tried. And their arms, their hardware, and their political support didn't get him anywhere vis-à-vis Israel. On the other hand, he thought he could make headway with the Americans because the American government, and the Europeans, had leverage with Israel. By allying himself with the United States he believed he could obtain American support for a number of his national goals. Another reason for Sadat's visit stemmed from the socioeconomic conditions in Egypt, which were and still are appalling. Everybody knows that Egypt is one of the most problematic countries because ofits very high annual population growth. Nearly one and a quarter million Egyptians are born each year, and the government has to see to their housing, education, jobs, and what have you. Egypt was collapsing under the pressure of these economic problems, and the widespread food riots in January 1977 were an ugly reminder to Sadat. The riots convinced him that he had to divert more resources to the economic betterment of the Egyptian masses, about whom, I think, he cared very much. A third consideration, I suppose—which embraced not only Sadat but others, too—had to do with the Egyptians' alternative Arab identity. The Egyptians adopted their Arab identity in the 1930s, but they thought of themselves as Egyptians before that. The coexistence of these identities, the Egyptian and the Arab, has helped mitigate the fervor of the Arab commitment in Egypt. So, in 1977 it helped Sadat and the Egyptian people look inward to their own problems, to solve their own problems, rather than to dedicate all their efforts and resources to the Arab nation. SAIS REVIEW: Egypt spilled its bloodfor the Arab world's cause? MA...