Ten Years After: A History of Roma School Desegregation in Central and Eastern Europe

Interview with Rumyan Russinov from Bulgaria

Interview with Rumyan Russinov from Bulgaria Rumyan Russinov was the deputy director of the Roma Education Fund and the director of the Open Society Institute’s Roma Participation Program . As the director of the Human Rights Project, a Sofia-based nongovernmental organization, he led the team of Roma activists that negotiated the program for Roma with the Bulgarian Government after the collapse of the communism. The interviewers were Iulius Rostas, Mihai Surdu and Marius Taba. Question: Thank you very much for agreeing to an interview. We have been talking with Romani activists at the forefront of the desegregation process in this part of Europe, and you are one of them. Rumyan Russinov: I appreciate the idea very much. In my opinion it is a very timely effort, and I believe that desegregation is one of the most important processes which have taken place in, I would say, the past 20 years in the Romani movement. I agree that we need a more systematic effort to analyze it. Q.: How would you describe Romani education during the communist period? What are the positive and the negative aspects of that period? R.R.: Specifically in Bulgaria, we inherited the present segregated schools in Roma neighborhoods from the communist times. These schools were built in the end of the 1940s–1950s as part of the state’s campaign to fight mass illiteracy. Roma were also targets of this policy which resulted in the construction of the schools in Roma-only neighborhoods in cities. Despite the separate educational facilities for Roma, however, the levels of segregation of Roma during the communist period have not been as 132 Ten Years After extreme as they became after 1989. The reason is that all Roma worked together with non-Roma, there was a contact between them and the majority society. Moreover, in smaller towns and villages the schools were integrated . It is no wonder that a big percentage of the Roma intelligentsia came from these places. However, the noxious effect of what later on was known as “the Gypsy schools” became evident in the years after 1989 when a large part of the Roma population found themselves unable to compete under the new conditions because they had low education and outdated skills. Whatever the initial intentions of the state had been, in 40 years, the separate schools created second-class citizens. Q: Were the educational needs different in communism and in the transition period, after the changes? Are there similarities and differences in the way Roma perceived education in these two different periods? R.R.: First of all, we should not generalize about Roma. We are different : There have always been people who despite all circumstances, despite bad educational policy, managed to educate themselves. There are others who had more unfortunate circumstances and live. But, of course, state policies matter a lot. I have to say that nowadays, the state is less concerned with educational policies in general, and even lesser with the educational status of Roma. The Roma issue in Bulgaria is not the only one ignored on the list of important issues. I have to say that during communism our status was relatively better, because as part of the working class, Roma were also part of social interaction , part of the system. They were integrated into society, few were marginalized. Today, without jobs, isolated and with almost no contact with the majority, many have become outsiders. Q: This “better status” in communism was somehow related to the circumstance that the system treated the working class more favorably than nowadays, and Roma had jobs during that time. R.R.: Yes, I think the most important thing was that Roma had jobs. They had a steady income and status. They thought of themselves as part of the system. When Roma lost their jobs, they lost contact with society and became outsiders, especially when their unemployment lasted for many years. When you are an outsider, you have no optimism; you think less about the children and what education they get. Such circumstances tend to change one’s way of thinking. Many Roma who were insiders then, are outsiders now. However, although they lost status, they are not marginalized because they still think of themselves as insiders. This self-perception makes the Bulgaria – Interview with Rumyan Russinov 133 difference between those who are marginalized and those who are not. Many non-Roma perceive Roma in general as...