Edgard Varèse on Music and Art: A Conversation between Varèse and Alcopley

Leomrdo, Vol. 1, pp. 187-195. PergamonPress 1968. Printed in Great Britain EDGARD VARkSE ON MUSIC A N D ART: A CONVERSATION BETWEEN VARESE* AND ALCOPLEY** Often and over many years I have visited Vartse and Louise, his charming wife, in their hospitable home at 188 Sullivan Street in New York. There, one is surrounded by many paintings and drawings. They are from LCger, Miro, Gonzalez, Bissitre, Hartung, Duchamp, Calder, myself and many others-all the gifts of hisfriends,the artiststhemselves. Suspended from a ceiling is a mobile by Calder. There is a Corot and a Monticelli, great favorites of Vartse. There is an ancient Japanese calligraphy with the portrait of a sage, the gift of the young Japanese composer Toshio Mayuzumi. And there are the paintings and drawings by Vartse himself. Here, in the company of works of art from different ages, we had many talks on art and music of earlier and our times. The following is one of our conversations which took place in January 1963, nearly three years before his death. ALCOPLEY VAR~SE A. V. I should like to know how it is that you, a composer, take such a keen interest in the plastic arts? The graphic and plastic arts have always been a necessity in my life-quite as much as music. I have always associated with painters and sculptors and many have been among my most intimate friends. That drawing you see there-a portrait of my grandfather-the only likeness of him I possess-was done by my friend Gonzalez-the first sculptor, if I’m not mistaken, to use forging techniques. We were together at my grandfather’s in his little village of Le Villars in Burgundy and when Gonzalez had finished the drawing he asked me if I had any fixative. Of course there was none. So he went to the cellar and came up with a head of garlic and proceeded to squeeze the oil from all the cloves onto the drawing. He was using, as he said, the fixative of the old masters. This is a fine drawing. And an excellent likeness. Incidentally, did you know that, likeCalder, Gonzalez ~ *Composer born in Paris 22 December 1883. (American citizen)Died in New York City, 6 November 1965. **Artist living at 50 Central Park West, New York, N.Y. 10023, U.S.A. (Received 1 September 1967). sometimes made jewellery? That iron ring Louise is wearing-he made for her in 1929 when we were living in Paris. You see how beautifully it is designed with the two fleurs-de-lis engraved on each side of the blue stone. A. Now tell me about your own drawings and paintings. V. I have always drawn and painted a little, but I am not a painter. Playing with colors and lines gives me great pleasure and is a diversion-a relaxation from composing (Figs. 1-5). Because I was destined by my father to be an engineer, I did a good deal of mechanical drawing at school-an excellent manual discipline-so that I am a pretty good doodler. But how I envy you painters! A. Why should you envy painters? V. Because you painters are in immediate communication with your audience. A painter hangs his canvas on a wall-a finishedwork. Anyone with eyescan see it. A score is only a blueprint, and cannot be said to be finished until it is played. It is at the mercy of performers and risks the distortion of their ‘interpretations ’. They are, after all, actors (I include conductors) before an audience and therefore tempted to show off. The exceptions are rare and sincerely appreciated by composers. When I was a young man in Berlin,I oncementioned in a letter to Debussy that I was thinking of taking up the piano. In his reply he wrote: ‘. ..You are quite right to take up the piano ...one is so often betrayed by so-called pianists. I can vouch for this personally, for you cannot imagine how my piano music has been distorted, to such a point that I scarcely recognize it. ..’ You see why we composers envy you. A. And have painters and sculptors also...