Beyond Nativism: An Interview with Ngugi wa Thiong'o

Always friendly and receptive, sometimes moved by awakened memories or stimulated at the prospect of talking about his past and present experiences, Kenyan writer Ngugi wa Thiong'o responded to my questions on his projects as director of the International Center for Writing and Translation at the University of California, Irvine, and on his concern with the question of literature, language, and power in contemporary Africa. Conducted at the ICWT on 25 September 2003, the interview emphasized, in particular, somte of the critical responses to Ngugi's views on language and art. Ngugi spoke with enthusiasm about his coming novel, The Wizard of the Crow, written in Gikuyu and now in the process of being translated into English, and about the personal rewards coming from the results of the journal Mutiiri. Despite the controversies that often rise as a result of his reflections on the role of the African writer, Ngugi was optimistic about the present activities of the Center regarding the always conflicting relationship between dominant and marginalized languages. Last, and most important, he was visibly moved at the prospect of visiting his homeland after the many years spent in exile.

Ângela Rodrigues: Are you planning to return to Kenya now that Arap Moi is no longer in power?

Ngugi wa Thiong'o: Yes, in fact I am going there next year. To visit, of course. As you know, with Moi no longer in power, I am no longer in exile.

ÂLR: In that case, would you consider the possibility of ever recovering projects that could help the peasants and illiterates in your country as you did before the exile?

NwT: Yes, I don't really know what is going to happen, but I really would like to see what I can do in Kenya that connects with my work here. Or how I can use a kind of California-Kenya connection that would allow me to work on some projects there. I would like to use the advantages of both and try to enrich both of them if possible.

ÂLR: Do you have an idea of how this connection could be accomplished? Would you continue working with theatre and performance?

NwT: Besides the project we are developing here at the Center, I could also have a project that would involve performance. But definitely the question of language is what I would like to focus on.

ÂLR: The ICTW seems, in fact, to perfectly match the politics of language that you have advanced during the last few decades. Its creation can be a major contribution to the promotion of subaltern knowledges as it attempts to support writers coming from the marginalized areas of the globe and to encourage a healthier relationship between dominant and marginalized languages.

NwT: Yes, you are right. The ICWT is very new (only three years old) and I assumed the directorship of the Center in July 2002. We are going to develop the center along many lines. But the basic idea is to look at languages and cultural situations in the world and divide languages into two groups: the dominant ones, which are the languages of power, and the marginalized ones. By being marginalized it does not mean that those languages are marginal: they are marginalized although they are not marginal. Our idea, then, is to encourage a model of cultural conversation through which marginalized languages can be in contact with one another. We interpret translation as conversation. And conversation assumes equality. So you can have a Native American language engaging in conversation with a Kenyan language, with a Brazilian language, with an Indian/Asian language, or you can have that kind of dialogue between a marginalized language and a European one, for example. This is the kind of thinking that we are developing here at the Center, and we believe that this model is applicable to Kenya and to many other parts of the world. Very often we find that marginalized languages do not converse with one another. Sometimes, we have a translation from a marginalized language into the languages of power, and occasionally, we have a translation from...