Interview: Bani Sadr with Maxwell Glen

INTERVIEW: BANI SADR WITH MAXWELL GLEN A leading political ideologue of the Iranian revolution and author of works on economics, history, and theology, Abolhassan Bani Sadrfled Iran in fune 1981. He now lives in France where he is in exile for the second time. During the reign of Mohamed Reza Pahfavi Shah, Bani Sadr became close to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini with whom he returned to lead revolutionary Iran in February 1979. After serving briefly as foreign minister in the new regime, Bani Sadr was elected to the presidency in January 1980. Eighteen months later, inJuly 1981, with his life in danger and his associates injail, he went into hiding and was deposed as president. He arrived in France on July 29, 1981. Maxwell Glen collaborates with Cody Shearer on a nationally syndicated editorial column distributed by the Field Newspaper Syndicate. This two and a half hour interview, from which thefollowing is excerpted, was held in Auvers Sur Oise, France, on December 4, 1981. Portions of it have already appeared in Mr. Glen's columns. GLEN: After you arrived in France, you indicated that you would return to Iran in afew months. Why are you still in France? BANI SADR: Yes, I said I would return. We are not far from doing so. You could say in a few months. But the situation in Iran has developed along the same path that I had predicted. Today you can see that the economic situation in Iran is finished. Repression is increasing and this has made the management of business impossible. GLEN: Without you and Nobari and others like yourselves in command, what's keeping the people from starvation? BANI SADR: If they do not die from starvation, they will die from lack of jobs 6 SAIS REVIEW that's worse than starvation. It is not simply because two of the characters are no longer in the play. The main thing is that for the first time we had succeeded in forming a team that knew what it was supposed to do. Thus, we were able to resist the economic blockade of the West. But everything was destroyed at the outset of the Radjain government. We suffered fatal damages from the inside, and that has caused hardships for Iran's economy as well as for other aspects of life there. The people are not happy. They had a revolution hoping that things would change, and then fell into a situation that is exacerbated from day to day. GLEN: Did you leave Iran dressed up as a woman, as Khomeini has charged? BANI SADR: I left a military base in uniform. But that is not very important. What is important is why he wanted to eliminate me. My being pushed aside discredited the revolution in the eyes of the people, because other than Khomeini himself, no one is left that the people can accept. What are the people's options today? Khomeini's regime one of repression, unemployment, and a dim future— or a [so-called] pro-American regime that would be on good terms with the West. We have no other solutions but to be dependent on the Russians or the Americans. You see, independence did not succeed, so it's up to you to choose between two evils: the Khomeini regime and the monarchists. GLEN: In your opinion, is Khomeini criminally insane? BANI SADR: You see, the nature of man is neither violent nor criminal. Man becomes a criminal by nature. However, a situation can be created where one arrives at crime. I cannot say that Khomeini is a criminal by nature. At the outset of the revolution he represented the spirituality of the revolution. If he were a criminal, you can be certain that he could not have played that role. He could never have become the symbol of the unanimity of an entire people. Indeed, all of the people considered him to be a pure spirit, as though he had lost, ifyou will, his materiality. . . . And today this man is killing twelve-year-old children. How did he change? He alone is not responsible. Everyone makes mistakes. Let me give you an example. One or two days after the fall...