Marian doctrine and ascetical theology become increasingly intertwined in the late fourth century West, especially in the writings of Ambrose and Jerome. Helvidius and Jovinian are two Christians who oppose these new developments. Helvidius rejects the doctrine of Mary's virginitas post partum; Jovinian rejects her virginitas in partu. For both, the Marian teachings represent faulty notions of sin, sexuality and the church. When compared to the ideas of earlier writers, the positions of Helvidius and Jovinian appear to be remarkably consonant with earlier Christian tradition.